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jack3566Spokane County GOP Rejects Needless Death
And set some changes to their platform that go against the Bush-McCain war policy:
The Spokane County Republican Party formally rejected the Iraq policy of their current president and their party’s likely nominee, saying American troops shouldn’t be on overseas missions for more than six months without a formal declaration of war.
At a county convention that some party leaders said may have set an attendance record for Republicans in Spokane, supporters of presidential candidate Ron Paul Saturday handily defeated an attempt to scale back the platform’s stringent limitation on using American troops on foreign soil.
Edit: Original Title was: “Spokane County GOP rejects murder”, and as I state in comments, I wasn’t sitting here thinking “hm the U.S. military is a bunch of murderers”, I was rather thinking many other cases. Rejecting the Bush-McCain policy of staying in Iraq would stop murder in more ways than one, though the initial impression given off by the very vague wording upset some, so I will change it.
Filed under: Politics
OK: Fooser. You have now officially called our troops murderers. You’ll come back and try to put it on Bush but, like the actual crime of murder, the one that issues the order AND the one who pulls the triggers are both considered guilty.
That makes you an unmitigated piece of shit, because that’s far less than what you’re calling our soldiers in the field!
Lance: this is just flat not acceptable, as you’ll find my comment. One is as bad as the other. You play this either way from a First Amendment perspective, but play it consistently.
No, I’m calling people like Blackwater murderers
No, sir, you are not: you are calling my brother’s old unit- the Marine Corps- murderers. Blackwater is a small part of the whole picture. Really brave for someone who hides his face an name on this blog (my face and name are my own)
So change the title, or live with the consequences, Chump.
Ok Mike, first off, Blackwater isn’t a small part of the picture, it’s an entirely different picture. In one drawing there are the official armed forces, who are obliged by standards of conduct and answer to someone. Then on the other side there are those who answer to basically no one, and have, as has been documented, used that status to get away with some sketchy activity.
I don’t recall calling your brothers old unit murderers, because you assumed quite a bit out of a small number of words. Not to mention it doesn’t make sense for me to insult them. There are some bad apples, but they are dealt with, unlike those who don’t answer to the military hierarchy. Some civilians kill each other too, but that doesn’t make the entire human race “murderers”.
And by the way, rejecting the Bush-McCain policy of staying in Iraq would stop murder in ways you probably didn’t think about when initially reading the title.
I don’t buy the argument that without a declaration of war, any lethal action by a military unit is to be considered murder, whether you place the charge against the president, commanders, or troops.
War was not declared in Vietnam either if I understand history correctly.
The point is, our congress and leaders voted to authorize the use of force(deadly) to contain a risk. They have ordered our GI’s into combat. If our leaders have broken statute with the law of the land, those culpible should be punished accordingly and we should get back to constitutional rule.
I do believe though that Rogue elements of the military and or contractors that operate outside the military chain of command which involve death is fair to have a charge of murder subject to military or civilian court proceedings when it is not defensive in nature or authorized by the military. I did not read anything about rogue elements in the article thoughand certainly did not read anything about military/civil law.
Fooser, I think you could use different wording or at least clarify whom exactly you are calling a murderer and please explain why? I think Mike won’t be the only person upset by this.
OK: I’m back from burning off a little of my real thoughts on the position by this participant in negative oral pressure applied to male genetilia. Fortunately, only the gym was open: I now can lift the full stack of weights on four of my seven machines. If the gun range had been open, using my .40 to shoot the crotch out of the CHL targets would have ruined my aim for the CHL Instructors license. You shoot what you practice and center body mass is what counts in tests.
First, a definiton:
the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder
Now state the case law that applies to accuse Bush, Blackwater members unconvicted in a court of law, and/or our military unconvicted in a court of law, of murder.
Otherwise, you Sir, I accuse you of Slander, also a crime within this country. Indeed, my family 40 years ago had our finger on the lightswitch of the local newspaper by proving a classic libel case when the newspaper accused certain Commisioners (including my mother) of robbery.
So state specifically whom you are accusing of a highly specific felony, which involves active participation, under state and federal statute- with the specific evidence and , or redo the title and STFU.
Again you are making a specific accusation of serious criminal activity on a blog not operated by either of us and that opens the door to portential slander charges if unprovable.
Talk all you want about ‘an immoral war’; that’ll keep you out of legal stupidity.
Please don’t change the title, Fooser. If Anne Coulter can title an article “They Shot the Wrong Lincoln” (alluding to her desire to murder Lincoln Chaffee) and accuse 9/11 widows of enjoying their husbands’ deaths, you can get away with this. Whatever the other guys may say.
Frankly some of these comments sound reminiscent of the communist hunts of the 50’s and 60’s. If you’ve got nothing to hide fooser, why don’t you show your face so we can prosecute you? That’s the American way. :P
Fooser should edit the original post and put a note to his comment he made here:
At least in an attempt to try to defend himself.
It’s bloody murder and we are all guilty. It is our flag, our country, our responsibility. We are the good Germans, this time.
“definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery…” As in illegal occupation of another country.
Up the Spokane County GOP!
The bloody murder is being committed by those that set of bombs in marketplaces and mosques these days. Since well over 90% of all civilian casualties are being directly and deliberately caused by the thugs and monsters we and the Iraqi military now fight, take up your complaints to them. However, they’re likely to answer by hacking your head off in a video posted on the internet. If they don’t decide to cut your face off with piano wire. But, being you probably don’t get out much in the rest of the world, I guess you figure you don’t have to worry about that. Give them time; they’ll come to see you as they did in Spain, London, Bali, Africa, and New York.
‘Illegal occupation’ implies a ruling as such, in an applicable court of law. Cite the specific case law or admit you’re being an utter fool, Terry.
“Needless Death’; better and expresses it correctly, as ‘needless’ is a subjective consideration.
However, it has been expressed to me that the editorial manager here does indeed believe the accusing our troops of murder is acceptable and it appears to be the majority opinion. I will write more on this on my final posting for this blog. I came here to discuss and argue policy, not to let libel against our troops in the field stand (whether it fits legal definitions or not). That gets too far from policy disagreements and too close to the Fifth Column for the terrorists, their only unit currently not getting their clocks cleaned.
While I felt the article was unspecific about who was guilty of murder and the lesser inflaming title is more appropriate in this case since the murder charge was not substantiated, we should not be afraid to call someone a murderer and back it up with reasons why we feel that way.
Dave, are you calling each and every American Soldier, sailor and marine who has taken life in this war a murderer? If not, where are you drawing the line?
Is one who shoots an armed opponent not currently firing on him a murderer?
Is one who mistakenly kills an armed noncombatant a murderer?
Is one who mistakenly (or carelessly) kills an unarmed noncombatant a murderer?
Is one who deliberately kills an unarmed noncombatant a murderer?
Myself, I find the last one as the only one deserving of the title, though the second could bring negiglance-related charges if blatant enough.
And the last act is exactly what most of the forces that oppose us in Iraq are doing at the moment. So our troops are currently involved in fighting premeditated murderers in mass.
I’m not an utter fool if I don’t know case law, Mike. I think our occupation of Iraq (Operation Iraqi Freedom) is illegal, even if our Supreme Court has not agreed with me.
As to the point of Fooser’s (now revised) title, if we are responsible for one murder out of a thousand, it is murder. And don’t mean venal murder by a uniformed soldier, i.e., a real murder which happenstance puts in the war context; I mean murder that needs to take place to achieve US policy. I think we, as a nation, have sanctioned murder, malice aforethought, as a cost of OIF.
Per your remarks to Dave about our soldiers , they cannot be held accountable for crimes of the state. (And that’s not a legal opinion, I’m not an attorney, I’m just saying what I believe is just).
And as for being out in the world, I used to work in the world trade center, watched it burn from my doorstep, and I recognize Operation Enduring Freedom as necessary. My brother has done two tours, flying an old C-130 in and out of Bagdad, and he still talks to me. Our cousin is an Let Col for the Marines, and he thinks I’m an unmitigated piece of shit. Everybody has an opinion.